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	<title>Comments for TradecoHoldco</title>
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	<description>Killing it like a hooker in Hong Kong</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:58:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on On Family by Nemo Incognito</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/on-family/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Nemo Incognito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-122</guid>
		<description>Well put. I agree that China is something of a black box. I am told those who know in academia often self-censor in order to preserve their access. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put. I agree that China is something of a black box. I am told those who know in academia often self-censor in order to preserve their access. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Family by vanderghast</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/on-family/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>vanderghast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-121</guid>
		<description>If things were to play out as they have in Western societies, then one would over time see these family groups become less powerful, and the growth of the middle class would play a role in leashing them. Middle class growth creates more democratic power centers, and oligarchs get reined in.

The thing that I find different in Asia is this. Outside of China and Japan, India and Indonesia, the rest of the countries are fairly small countries where these leading families are able to capture the national imagination. The aspirations of the family become the aspirations of the nation. And the nation is used to defend the interest of the family in question. 

You can see this most clearly in Singapore, but you can also see it in Malaysia, where the ruling UMNO party is a mass of inter-related incestuous Malay elites. You have a Thai king and his related royalists, and the South Korean chaebol families and their retainers. 

So in these countries, the ruling families cannot, by definition, ever lose their influence without a real change in the national character and aspirations. I.e. for the chaebols to completely lose their footing in Korea, Korea will have to become something other than Korea.

India and Indonesia are different, in the sense that each has a multitude of oligarchs of different ethnic, tribal, caste based backgrounds. In these countries, the oligarchs are seen as champions of their tribe, language (ie Tamil in Thiagarajar&#039;s case) etc. In such an instance you have a small minority with fervent loyalty to their champion. While criminal acts and pervasive bad press may detract from the family&#039;s status, unless new champions emerge these families will continue to hold sway. But competition between the various elites means that ultimately the state will have to play arbiter in disputes (read the Ambani gas feud) and hence gain supremacy.

The Japanese, with their respect for tradition, still respect the oldest of family linkages, and there are definitely members of the Diet now who are descended and more or less inherited their positions from shoguns past. They have their own way of doing things which I don&#039;t understand most of the time, but it seems to involve strong societal restraints on aspirations, on garish displays of wealth. combined with a national vision much like the Koreans. But there definitely has been a normalization here in comparison with the other countries.

The Chinese remain a mystery. The Communist Party is a bit like the Borg, and while it takes care of its own, it definitely doesn&#039;t like alternative power centres outside the party&#039;s sphere of influence. So while family influence exists and is very powerful, it is often hidden under many many layers. The Chinese are attempting to build a Lee Kuan Yew style technocratic mandarinate but without a leading family, it remains to be seen whether they can pull it off in a country with 400 times the population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If things were to play out as they have in Western societies, then one would over time see these family groups become less powerful, and the growth of the middle class would play a role in leashing them. Middle class growth creates more democratic power centers, and oligarchs get reined in.</p>
<p>The thing that I find different in Asia is this. Outside of China and Japan, India and Indonesia, the rest of the countries are fairly small countries where these leading families are able to capture the national imagination. The aspirations of the family become the aspirations of the nation. And the nation is used to defend the interest of the family in question. </p>
<p>You can see this most clearly in Singapore, but you can also see it in Malaysia, where the ruling UMNO party is a mass of inter-related incestuous Malay elites. You have a Thai king and his related royalists, and the South Korean chaebol families and their retainers. </p>
<p>So in these countries, the ruling families cannot, by definition, ever lose their influence without a real change in the national character and aspirations. I.e. for the chaebols to completely lose their footing in Korea, Korea will have to become something other than Korea.</p>
<p>India and Indonesia are different, in the sense that each has a multitude of oligarchs of different ethnic, tribal, caste based backgrounds. In these countries, the oligarchs are seen as champions of their tribe, language (ie Tamil in Thiagarajar&#8217;s case) etc. In such an instance you have a small minority with fervent loyalty to their champion. While criminal acts and pervasive bad press may detract from the family&#8217;s status, unless new champions emerge these families will continue to hold sway. But competition between the various elites means that ultimately the state will have to play arbiter in disputes (read the Ambani gas feud) and hence gain supremacy.</p>
<p>The Japanese, with their respect for tradition, still respect the oldest of family linkages, and there are definitely members of the Diet now who are descended and more or less inherited their positions from shoguns past. They have their own way of doing things which I don&#8217;t understand most of the time, but it seems to involve strong societal restraints on aspirations, on garish displays of wealth. combined with a national vision much like the Koreans. But there definitely has been a normalization here in comparison with the other countries.</p>
<p>The Chinese remain a mystery. The Communist Party is a bit like the Borg, and while it takes care of its own, it definitely doesn&#8217;t like alternative power centres outside the party&#8217;s sphere of influence. So while family influence exists and is very powerful, it is often hidden under many many layers. The Chinese are attempting to build a Lee Kuan Yew style technocratic mandarinate but without a leading family, it remains to be seen whether they can pull it off in a country with 400 times the population.</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Family by Nemo Incognito</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/on-family/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Nemo Incognito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-120</guid>
		<description>Do you think this dynamic would fall apart as a larger, more vocal middle class develops?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think this dynamic would fall apart as a larger, more vocal middle class develops?</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Family by AW</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/on-family/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>AW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?p=152#comment-119</guid>
		<description>Do you think this is something that will gradually unwind over the generations or is it something that is permanently a feature of doing business in Asia? The system only really works in an environment where large amounts of wealth and political influence is concentrated in the hands of a few families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think this is something that will gradually unwind over the generations or is it something that is permanently a feature of doing business in Asia? The system only really works in an environment where large amounts of wealth and political influence is concentrated in the hands of a few families.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Citadel, Bloomberg and the perils of stale news&#8230; by Nemo Incognito</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/citadel-bloomberg-and-the-perils-of-stale-news/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Nemo Incognito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?p=149#comment-118</guid>
		<description>On another note, it would be interesting to hear what you think about my post on the organization of special sits funds. No doubt you&#039;ve seen a few over the years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On another note, it would be interesting to hear what you think about my post on the organization of special sits funds. No doubt you&#8217;ve seen a few over the years.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Citadel, Bloomberg and the perils of stale news&#8230; by Nemo Incognito</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/citadel-bloomberg-and-the-perils-of-stale-news/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>Nemo Incognito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 06:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?p=149#comment-117</guid>
		<description>Its no small wonder that people are getting more and more news from blogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its no small wonder that people are getting more and more news from blogs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fund Info: Matchpoint Asia by vanderghast</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/2009/10/08/fund-info-matchpoint-asia/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>vanderghast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 03:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?p=124#comment-116</guid>
		<description>Been a tad busy, Nemo. Will try to put a full answer to this later...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Been a tad busy, Nemo. Will try to put a full answer to this later&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fund Info: Matchpoint Asia by Nemo Incognito</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/2009/10/08/fund-info-matchpoint-asia/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>Nemo Incognito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?p=124#comment-111</guid>
		<description>What do you make of some of the other event driven teams floating around now? Anthony Correa et al, HBK, etc etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you make of some of the other event driven teams floating around now? Anthony Correa et al, HBK, etc etc.</p>
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		<title>Comment on About by Oliver</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/about/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-106</guid>
		<description>Yo Paul,

It is Oliver here and am in HK, too.

Same industry as you do so if you have time, we might be able to have a catch up here in HK.

Let me know.

Thanks 

Oliver</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yo Paul,</p>
<p>It is Oliver here and am in HK, too.</p>
<p>Same industry as you do so if you have time, we might be able to have a catch up here in HK.</p>
<p>Let me know.</p>
<p>Thanks </p>
<p>Oliver</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fund info: Och-Ziff Asia by Fund Info: Matchpoint Asia &#171; TradecoHoldco</title>
		<link>http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/2009/04/01/fund-info-och-ziff-asia/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>Fund Info: Matchpoint Asia &#171; TradecoHoldco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 03:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?p=93#comment-105</guid>
		<description>[...] Info: Matchpoint&#160;Asia Well,  looks like Raaj Shah, he of the first Och Ziff partner to get fired before the IPO fame, has bounced back, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Info: Matchpoint&nbsp;Asia Well,  looks like Raaj Shah, he of the first Och Ziff partner to get fired before the IPO fame, has bounced back, [...]</p>
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